Are you in a het marriage? How does that...

topic posted Sun, April 22, 2007 - 2:14 PM by  Ray Vaughn
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affect you sexuality, do you feel partially closeted or eclipsed? it has been called to my attention that there are a vast number of bisexuals in het marriages and that this is a hugely untapped resource within the bi community. How can we reach out to and support bis in straight relationships?
posted by:
Ray Vaughn
North Bay
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  • Good question!

    I'm in a het marriage. I guess, yes, I do feel partially closeted. I feel somewhat invisible and not "at home" in either the het or homo world. I feel as though I'm caught between a couple of different worlds. I didn't become aware of my bisexuality until after I got married, so that adds another layer to my strange parfait!

    I'd love to hear other opinions/experiences.

    Oh, if this post is somewhat non-sensical, please forgive me. It is FAR past my bedtime!
    • Agreed, very good question.

      Het marriage here also. It is tough to not be able to express that part of my sexuality, but I don't want to cheat. My wife knows, but I didn't tell her til we were already married for 3 years. I was in pretty heavy denial, kept trying to convince myself that my earlier sexual activity with men was "experimentation" or "just a phase". Amazing how I bullshitted myself for about a decade! Actually more amazing that she didn't kick my ass to the curb. After all, that's a pretty big thing to spring on your spouse after being married that long.

      The closeted part definitely affects me far more than not having man-sex does. Even though I'm not actively bi, I don't like living the lie. A very few select friends know, that does help. I'm not totally alone.

      I may get ripped for this, so be it.

      I cannot figure out what is the lesser of two evils, so to speak.

      Keep this inside and deal with my own private pain? Sometimes it rips my guts out.
      or
      Come out and watch all hell break loose, especially with her (Very Catholic) family? So many people in our lives would NOT understand, on many levels. The questioning my wife would certainly have to endure...I don't want to put her through that. She doesn't really want me to either. Her life is tough as is, she has MS. Every day is a physical struggle for her, do I even have the right to add to that?

      I'm sure some people are going to want to say "If people won't accept you for who you are, they aren't worth having in your life."
      On one level, I totally agree. On several other levels, it's just not that simple.

      Believe me, I've given this a LOT of thought. I have not yet arrived at a solution.
      • This post was deleted by Ray Vaughn
      • it takes a special spouse who isn't bisexual to support a bisexual spouse. but, hey, everyone who's married needs to learn to support each other. when i was married and the marriage was good, that's what we did: we supported each other.

        the truth is everyone has their secrets. for example, married men love to masturbate, often with porn. married women masturbate, too. we all have undisclosed fantasies. we'd all like to be able to try something sexual that we are often afraid to voice to the other spouse.

        i once suggested to my ex that we make love while both being blindfolded. no s&m involved, just a different sensory experience. the idea freaked him out. neither of us were wrong. but i was disappointed.

        i think every committed relationship will produce disappointments for both partners. it's not that either partner is wrong. no one person can fulfill everyones' needs. bisexuality is just one other possible factor in the disappointment mix.

        i have no answer what to do about that. of the choices available, masturbation seems to be the safest course. but what do i know? my marriage didn't last.

        my point is: we bisexuals should not feel guilty or let others make us feel guilty for being who we are. life is hard enough as it is.
  • Yes, I'm married to a bisexual woman. Except for people who knew her in her bi group days in college, I think all of my wife's friends think of her as straight, and she has no interest in identifying publicly as bi anymore. So we never jointly talk about such issues with friends.

    I'm out as bi (and poly) to somewhat more of my friends than my wife is. But many of my friends come from my professional acquaintances, and I don't tend to be out to them, mostly because there's rarely an opportunity for the subject to come up in a natural way.

    I mentioned in conversation to various friends last year that I was traveling to another city quite often to spend time with a couple who were friends there. I kind of thought *someone* might ask more about that, and I'd have an opportunity to say that I was dating them, but no one ever asked, and I'm quite hesitant about volunteering personal details to people who may not want to know them.

    So yes, I do feel more than partly closeted, and the lack of bi community in Chicago where I live makes it worse. On the other hand, the explosion of social networking, online dating, etc. makes it easier to make new bi friends, and also just reinforces that there's a lot of us out there.
  • We are both bi. She is out to her family, I am not. We are both out to a select group of very close friends, her more than me. Outwardly, and to most of our friends we are both straight and monogomous... although we DO have one friend who has (thinks she has, anyway) figured out that we are not as monogomous as we like to let people think...
    • BOB
      BOB
      online 0
      I had about a 10-15 year on again, off again sexual relationship with a friend of mine.
      teens through 30-35 years old. mostly him being the initiator. But, over time it went
      from a quick bj to a more emotional relationship. He passed away about ten years back.
      I was married almost 15 years. and, have recently been with my gf 7 years.
      I miss a man to man relationship. I suppress it. I do often thing about it before,
      during and after sex with my gf. It seems like sex with my friend was an escape.
      he wanted me for me. No pressures. guys being guys. I miss that with a man.
      announces I am bi is not an option. not with my family, my work or my area where I live.
      being truly bi is a curse. I hope to see more answers from others.
      send me a friend invite. Thanks BOB
  • It's hard. Period. Even in the Bay Area, where this sort of thing is de rigeur. The challenge in the Bay Area is that unless you are fully immersed in the alt/Burning Man/sex party/BDSM lifestyle, it is hard to make worlds collide holistically. Without all those external badges of belonging, it can be quite a challege. And I don't really feel like tattooing 'queer poly' across my forehead.

    But finding queer partners who are open to the construct, and willing to open themselves as a partner seriously is more of a problem. I think swinging or casual sex or friends with benefits is fairly easy to come by, but the real deal is something I gave up on years ago, recently decided to explore again, and am ready to give up on, once again.

    It seems easier when one is bisexual in a het marriage just to play casually, and continue to foster emotional connections with platonic friends. On the other hand, I do feel blessed to have the real deal with my husband, and am probably greedy for wanting to have my cake and eat it too. :-)
  • Unsu...
     
    I'm a bi guy in a hetero relationhip. It's hard.
    My partner is fabulous and I love her to no end.
    Even though she knows I am bi she has not chosen to really experience it with me. We have super hot pillow talk and it ends there.
    It's tough.

    Years ago I had a one night fling with a guy I met in a bar (yes I was dating my lady at the time). The night was awesome... but th eguilt was terrible. I decided to tell her about it to come clean. In a way I thought it might push the door open and we could move on together. Instead it scared her and things went bad. I don't blame her. But then I don't blame myself either. I did it becasue I wanted to and frankly it was totally hot.

    I love my lady but I know I'm missing out on a part of who I am.
    Life can be tough.

    I'd love to hear from other guys in the same boat becasue I know there are a lot more of us out there.

    Why is it that society finds bi girls to be so hot and bi guys to be theatening or strange?
    • Yah, I don't get it either. I'm a bi woman who thinks bi guys are totally hot and would love to find one to settle down and make a little bi baby with, LOL. But quite often I find guys saying the same thing you just did, other women, even other BI women, seem to be turned off by bi men???
      • Hope you don't mind, but I had to say "right on sista! ~smile~". Seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. Oh, everybody loves the bi girl, but have a bi guy and it's like you have some communicable disease. Forget about finding a woman who likes bi guys and poly! I'm new to this site and still trying to figure it out, but I have great hope for this site. I have seem to find a place where people accept and even like (heaven forbid) unique people. Anyway, just had to reply to your post.
    • mel
      mel
      offline 2
      me too (fling) "he" knows.

      the guilt was crushing. she was very cute and i wouldn't have done it if he hadn't left me, he was out of town and claiming he wnated a divorce for over six months. so sue me. 1 night satnd.

      i think that the psyche of men has been somewhat warped.
      you are allowed to give (the pitcher)but to take (catcher)
      is considered dangerous and threatening to your manhood. there is a whole subculture of men who desperately want thier wife or gf to give them anal sex so that tosses the anal sex and gay assumtion out the window.

      i find bi men to be hot in this taboo exotic way. i can see why your gf likes to talk about it. we can be like men, the mroe openminde dof us. men rave about seeing two women get it on, so we can be like that. one beer or one cookie or one joint, fantabulous. two? even nicer to see sometimes.
      my eprsonal preferance is no anal, if i watch them i like think of them doing other things.
      i have impishly tease my hubs about wanting to watch a guy go down on him, i love the reaction.

      he curses and blushes, calls me weird and twisted.
      why does he blush? *rimshot*
      i feel a kinsey anaylisis coming on. what if he was a 1 or 2 2 on the scale/
      he'd understand me SO much better...........
  • mel
    mel
    offline 2
    yes i am and i dont think its the whole world's business that i am bisexual. i am out and proud to a point. my best friends all know, my husband knew and so does my immedaite family.
    i say screw the world its not all of their business they are NOT sleeping with you!!!!!!
    f** em and don't be so painful and said. the people whop actually matter know about you and still care so not to minimalise your pain but, brush it off like dirt off your shoulder, man. people are people, live for yourself and to heck with the rest!
  • J
    J
    offline 56
    I'm a bi woman in a hetero marriage. My husband thinks it's hot that I've been with girls, likes to see me with girls...but sometimes I'm not into women, and sometimes I am. It truly depends on the PERSON.
    How does this affect me sexually? I'd like to have more sex with other men and women besides my husband, don't get me wrong, he's beautiful and sexy and yummy, but a little variety is good...but the jealousy thing gets him if I'm with another man, but not a woman - huh????
    Sex is good all the way around, men or women. I've always been open with my husband about the bi thing, in fact, I told him I was really a lesbian just fucking him for fun when I met him...LOL...guess I wasn't really very lesbian at the time....; )
    It does get sticky sometimes, as when a GF of mine fell in love with my husband...oops...telling me she loved me when she really loved him....what a fire that was to get out of...
    Anyways, I think it would be easier if he was bi as well, maybe he would understand better, maybe not. It's not always about sex, but about energy you feel with a particular person.
    My gay friends scoff at my het marriage, and I don't like it when they call me straight. But it's the easy path, the path well worn by society so we fall into it not questioning until later. When I got married the 2nd time, I was scared I was making a huge mistake, after all, I had just gotten away from a bad het marriage, fell in and out of love with a woman, then fell hard for another man. who knew...love is blind to gender, at least for me.
    Us bi's are a queer bunch, we are unpredictable, I think people don't like that. When I speak of my ex gf's, my new friends get puzzled. When I speak of being attracted to some guy, people say, but your married? ugh! Doesn't anyone else have those thoughts? I know they do... Doesn't mean I act on them.
    • J
      J
      offline 56
      OH, one more thing - I think it would be nice to support one another - there are lots of bi/het marriages that struggle. it would be great to have a community to share stories, solutions, outcomes, etc...
      I just recently watched the Kinsey Documentary, not the movie made about him, but the doc. So fascinating! He seemed like such a square with his scientific "wasp fly" research and retreats...yet he made this discovery about himself and put science to the test. Love it. I want to learn more, I want to take his research farther...and yet I like that I am on the "fringe" of societies norms.
    • Wow, it's amazing, I mean AMAZING how much you and I have in common...

      >>My husband thinks it's hot that I've been with girls, likes to see me with girls...but sometimes I'm not into women.<<

      Linz is just head over heels with the idea that I enjoy men. Since we've been together I've slept with her gay best friend, his boyfriend and another mutual friend in front of her much to her delight. Our play with women has been *very* rare comparitively, and she makes no bones about the fact that she does it because she knows I enjoy it. However, a guy we share has leave to nail me to the wall anyway he likes. A girl however is subject to alot of rules, primarily "no penetration" n' so on. I go with it because I love my wife. I love her to death. But, as you say...

      >>I'd like to have more sex with other men and women besides my husband, don't get me wrong, he's beautiful and sexy and yummy, but a little variety is good...but the jealousy thing gets him if I'm with another man, but not a woman - huh????<<

      Now, I'm not bragging, but my wife is an ex runway model. She stands at 6' and is what most people would call classically beautiful. This in itself doesn't make that much difference to me. I don't pretend that looks aren't a factor, but still I think they're probably less important to me than most. Linz and I just kinda happened by wonderful accident, and by wonderful accident she just happens to be the kind of girl that leaves a trail of tongues dragging in her wake when she walks down the street.

      I mention this, because I want to illustrate the fact that no matter how much of a knockout, no matter how proficient in bed a girl is in my experience (Linz can work a door-knocker tongue ring like it vibrates) her mind always goes to what she's lacking when I mention wanting to be with other girls as well. Like you said, our spouses are beautiful and sexy and yummy, but a little variety is good. Like you, the jealousy hits her right away when it's another girl, but I could tie her up in a corner and get pegged by a male friend and she'd have a smile on her face the whole time.

      I mean, I LOVE my boys. But there's something in the female form, and the miriad variations of beauty you can find in the differences in women that just addicts me.

      >>When I got married the 2nd time, I was scared I was making a huge mistake, after all, I had just gotten away from a bad het marriage, fell in and out of love with a woman, then fell hard for another man.<<

      Linz is my THIRD marriage. My first I just married too young (18) and before I realized my inner freak. I grew up in a midwest town, so as far as being bi, it would still take three years before I had the courage to actually admit it to myself, let alone anyone else.

      My second marriage I still carry scars from. No, I mean LITERAL scars. I've been opened up with a set of keys across my face, had my fingers broken in a door. I mean it was bad. After that I *did* stick primarily to men for a little bit, and had a very fulfilling yet doomed relationship with a married male friend (who's wife knew he was more gay than straight, yet was very supportive of him in that respect.) To this day they remain my model for what a bisexual relationship should be. Yet he *was* married, and so there was that glass ceiling of how far our relationship could actually go. I wouldn't say it broke my heart, but there are a few splinters lying around.

      >>Us bi's are a queer bunch, we are unpredictable, I think people don't like that. When I speak of my ex gf's, my new friends get puzzled.<<

      I get varying degrees of surprise, or forced non-surprise lol. I have a tendancy to surround myself with pretty open minded people. I still think if I came out to my work friends here in anaheim though there'd be ALOT of sideways glances.

      Hey, maybe we should introduce the other halves?! Then we could all go slam a few back now and again when we were feeling particularly itchy and cry on each other's shoulder.

      ...or just get them drunk and convince them we should all jump in bed together. lol
  • There must be millions of bisexuals in heterosexual marriages.

    I didn't realize the extent until I started a discussion group for only bi married men on another site. Within a six months I have almost 250 couples in the group. This group is on a swingers website, so one can also see that about 50 percent of the women list themselves as bi.

    Very few of the men do the same. An overwhelming number of them list themselves as "straight", as not to be ostracized by other couples
    whose men are really straight.

    The odd thing is that about half the men on the site have had or say they wish to have sex with men (mostly oral).

    The women on the other hand are quite "out". For them being bi is a label and matter of prestige.

    It is much easier for them, because their husbands enjoy seeing their wives "play" with other women. Infact, usually the women start the sex play to both gratify themselves and arouse their attending husbands.

    My group is clearly an oasis for the couples with bi men even when their wives are staright. The wives love it as much as, if not more than the men.

    MMF, FFM, FFMM and FMFM sex play are common discussions as are the best strap-ons to buy, or how hot the wives get watching their man with another man. Where else could a married bi male talk to another about how proudly he likes to suck dick, or how wonderful it feels to have a dick in their ass.

    For the men it is the only place where they can be themselves. No angst. No guilt. Just being in a environment where they can share their fantasies and experiences is liberating for them. For many it is the first time they can express an identity.

    Even though I told my wife I was bi before we got married, like many here I did not address any of those feelings until I turned 50 for fear of divorce, how it would affect my son, and the rest of our family. I started the group because I needed to know I was not alone, but also to "get it out". I couldn't take it anymore.

    That's when we started to swing, and unlike any other solution swinging allowed me the freedom to express my sexuality and keep my marriage together. I should also say my wife is quite open and when presented with the possibility of also being able to act out her own sexuality she slowly but surely embraced the idea.

    Now, she willing prefers sex with women more than with most men. As she tells me, "Don't expect me to have sex with a man you wouldn't have sex with." - and I do not.

    Most often, when we are with another couple (and we are very picky), I have sex with the husband, and she has sex with the wife, and then we have sex with each other, unless on those rare occasions we both wish to have sex with our opposite partners.

    This was our solution. Obviously it will not work for everyone, but it did for us so far.

    From conversations I've moderated, I might suggest that for people who are dying inside you might suggest a threesome first, and see how your partner takes to the idea. Let them suggest what gender the third party should be, and go along with it.

    Don't be pushy. Help them explore their fantasies. Take it slow. If it doesn't work well the first time, try again later - but be subtle.

    If the idea is amenable work out the details together to make it a reality. You might be surprised to see which one of you takes control.

    For me this was far better than doing anything behind her back.

    If you "cheat" you will probably replace one guilt with another, and if you get caught - well you already know what to expect.

    Much better to negotiate a solution that involves your partner's participation.

    This idea of a Bi Community is one of the reasons why I am starting BlindPassion Lifestyles (some of you have received invitations from me.).

    Because we are not monosexuals, I created a separate section (community) on the site specifically for Bisexuals, distinctly apart from Gays, Lesbians, and Transgenders.

    Already I have been criticized by some, but I think it is extremely important that we have a place to discuss our own issues without fighting from a minority position to be heard and understood by a much more public, organized, and politicized majority.

    We need a place to form our own identity. And though we have many political issues in common with the GLBT community, we are not monosexuals. That means sexually we are different.

    The only way I can think of to create a community is to put us together, so we can share our stories, understand our unique circumstances, as well as support and play with each other.

    I may be wrong, but I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and give it a try.


    • Look over the old threads in this tribe and you will find many resources nationally for the Bi community. I had hoped that starting this tribe we could actually talk about OTHER issues facing the bi community besides how many partners one sleeps with or has sex with, what the political ramifications are, but it seems with the war going on no one stops to think about ANY political issues facing the bi community, just the sexual ones?

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